Hansel Lynn , founder and CEO of  theCoderSchool , has carved out a unique niche in the franchising world by combining his tech expertise with a passion for mentorship and community impact. In a recent episode of  Nick Powills’ “ Franchisor Hot Seat” podcast , Lynn shares his journey from franchisee to launching his own brand, revealing how his experience with School of Rock inspired him to create a coding school franchise that prioritizes relationships and personalized learning.  With over 70 locations nationwide, theCoderSchool continues to thrive under Lynn’s leadership, focusing on teaching kids to code while fostering creativity and critical thinking. A transcript of Powills' interview with Lynn has been provided below. It has been edited for brevity, clarity and style. Nick Powills: All right, it’s very rare that I say this, Hansel, but to kick this off, I’m a fan of the brand. My kid, every Saturday when we lived in Atlanta, went to theCoderSchool, so I’m a fan of the brand. We’ll start there. But question one — and then we’ll go unscripted — how did you accidentally fall into franchising? What’s your franchise story? Hansel Lynn:  My franchise story? Well, let’s see. I was in the corporate world for quite a while — a tech guy — and one day I just decided I hated it. I wanted to do my own thing, like a lot of franchisees do. So, I randomly happened upon an article in Entrepreneur Magazine about School of Rock, actually. It’s a huge franchise — I love those guys. I had played in a band a long time ago, and I thought, “Wow, it’d be so amazing to teach kids how to play Led Zeppelin on stage.” So that’s how I got into franchising in the first place. Then I took my tech background and combined it with what I learned working with School of Rock, and that’s how I started theCoderSchool. Powills: All right, tons to unpack there. So, you hated your corporate job — which is a path a lot of people who turn to franchising go through. And you went down the path I would expect most people to take, thinking, “Let me go find something I’m super passionate about.” So many people say, “I want to buy a power washing franchise,” and I’m like, “Is that something you’ve always talked about doing?” But you were different. You thought, “I’d like to teach kids music.” Talk about your understanding of franchising at that point. You saw the ad, you went through the process — did you even know what franchising was? And then, as a franchisee, at what point did you think, “Ooh, I want to be a franchisor, not just a franchisee?” Lynn:  Certainly when you first go into something like franchising, there’s a lot of unknowns, right? Even if you hear stuff from friends or whatnot, you don’t really know until you know. So, I think my concept going in was, “Hey, somebody’s going to help me start up this business. Somebody’s going to provide some support for me.” I’d say I went in pretty blind, but I think the power of a franchisor is their ability to come in and really help you learn. Six months in, I realized, “Hey, I get it. These guys are super valuable because they’ve taught me all the skills I need to run my own business.” To the second part of your question, I realized the power of the franchise model — the idea that as a business owner, I don’t have to start from scratch. Somebody gave me a hand and got me going. This was in Silicon Valley at the time, and it was just fortuitous. There wasn’t really anything to teach kids how to code at the time, and I thought, “Whoa, there’s a gap here for sure.” So I took my tech knowledge and thought, “Wait a minute. I also now kind of understand the franchise model. Is that something I can combine together?” And that’s how it all started. Powills: Did you remain a franchisee? Are you still a franchisee of School of Rock? Lynn:  No. I was actually doing it in parallel for maybe three years or so. But no, I’m not. Powills: Did you sell your unit? Lynn:  Yeah, back to corporate. Powills: That’s another extension of the stories I love — when you’ve protected an asset and have something to sell. That’s another value of franchising. So, you opened up unit one, but you opened it with the lens of franchising theCoderSchool.  Lynn:  I wouldn’t necessarily say I had a clear lens — maybe a super blurry lens. It was more like, as you mentioned earlier, some franchisees go into it thinking, “Where’s the money at? Do the numbers add up?” I never looked at it that way. I looked at it as, “What cool thing do I want to do? What’s going to make me wake up in the morning excited to go in and check it out?” When I opened the first one, I was pretty sure it was going to work because, in Silicon Valley, there’s a lot of money and people want their kids to learn to code. So, after I opened the first one, I brought in my best friend, who’s now my business partner. We talked a lot about whether we wanted to go for the franchising model or raise money and just open a bunch ourselves. Ultimately, we realized that every school requires an owner who’s deeply passionate about impacting the community and helping kids learn to code. We knew we couldn’t outsource that across the country and just hire someone on the East Coast and hope they’d be passionate. We needed owners who were invested — putting in their own money, taking their own risks and really wanting to be hands-on. That’s why we chose the franchising model. Powills: So how many units do you guys have open now? Lynn:  Right around 70 or so. Powills: Looking back on the story, did that hit your expectations once you decided to invest in franchising? Has it exceeded or missed your expectations? Where were those expectations? Lynn:  To be honest, in the beginning, I wasn’t aiming super high. I’m not a big business guy — I’m more of a small business person who likes to get my hands dirty. When we first started franchising, I told myself, “If we get to 30 units, I’ll be stunned. I’ll get out and let somebody else run this thing for me.” But every time we hit a milestone — 30, 50, 70 — I’d say to my buddy  Wayne [Teng] , who runs this with me, “Man, do we really need to get someone else? Let’s just keep doing this. This is a blast.” This has gone way beyond my expectations. I never thought I could run a company with 70 units, but here I am. It’s been a blast and as long as it’s fun, we’re going to stick around. Powills:  So, unsolicited — and then we’ll get more into the brand — but what I love about your story is this: a franchisee mindset is different from a franchisor mindset. As a franchisee of School of Rock, you obviously bought into that business. Now, when you’re setting up your own business, you’re approaching it with a different lens. Plenty of brands think, “We’re going to spend on all these bells and whistles and increase the investment for the franchisee.” But I’m sure you’re looking at it differently, asking, “How do we bootstrap this?” because the goal is to educate kids and give them a coding education — not to add unnecessary bells and whistles. If I were you, I’d take what you just said and position it as, “Former School of Rock franchisee: How I created theCoderSchool.” There’s so much insight you’ve gained that you’ve probably cross-applied to this business. When I land on your franchise site right now, it says “franchise,” but that’s not really what you’re selling. Based on what you said, your small business mindset — that idea of being thrilled with 30 units — tells me you’re protecting the culture more than you give yourself credit for. Now, you’ve doubled your goal, which is amazing. There’s magic in what you’re saying, but I don’t think it translates over into how you’re positioning the business. And I think it’s a tremendous business. I’ve said this on some of my podcasts before: for our kid, we hired a private teacher in India for a long time to give him coding lessons because we couldn’t find a solution — that was when we lived in Chicago the first time. Then we moved to Atlanta and finally found something that could provide the basics. Whether my kid wants to code for the rest of his life or not, I think it’s as essential as learning Spanish. If you don’t learn coding, it will impact you as an adult later on. Anyway, I think your story is so beautiful, but it doesn’t fully translate to the franchise site. I’d suggest taking what you just said and using it to overhaul your franchise site. Lynn:  Good advice.   I’ll definitely take a look. Powills: All right, let’s get into the brand. I’ll start by saying, in my opinion, coding is as essential as learning another language — it’s a form of language that exists in our world. Why this brand? Why now? And how are you continuously pushing that message, both within the community and to potential franchise buyers? Lynn:  Well, I think it’s interesting, especially nowadays with AI coming down the pipeline. In the beginning, people said, “Oh, yeah, everybody has to code,” and that was sort of a given. Now, there’s a bit of a debate — does everybody really need to code with AI coming into play? I’d tend to say yes. Of course, I’m a little biased, but for a number of reasons, I believe coding remains essential. And it’s not just about the technology itself. Yes, we’re surrounded by technology, and understanding it is important. But more than that, coding teaches logical thinking. It’s about reasoning — “If A, then B.” That kind of logic applies to any career, whether you’re a doctor, lawyer, plumber or artist. On our side, we emphasize delivering this in a very personal way and that’s what sets our brand apart. We don’t use a rigid, one-size-fits-all curriculum. Instead, our main model is a two-on-one approach. This means the same code coach works with the same kid, building a mentor-like relationship. It’s about understanding the kid’s interests. For example, if they love basketball, we might say, “Let’s create an Atlanta Hawks game!” It’s all about drawing them in with something customized to their interests at a pace that works for them. That personalized connection is the power of our brand. It helps kids stay engaged, learn at their own speed and have fun. And as every parent knows, kids don’t really learn until they  want to learn. So making it fun and engaging is a huge part of what we do. Powills: Just some comments — and any feedback is welcome — on the AI front. I’m glad you brought that up. In my opinion, it’s like asking, “Well, there’s Uber, so do we need to learn how to ride a bike? And there are boats, so do we need to learn how to swim?” The answer is yes. Even if you look at bike riding or swimming, beyond the activity itself, they teach fundamentals. It’s still about logic — “If A, then B.” That’s how our systems process. So I think having a basic understanding of coding is crucial, even if you end up being an artist or using painting later on. There will still be components of logic and problem-solving you’ll have learned. Another thing that I think is important, and maybe hasn’t been touched on enough, is the coaching side of it. For my own child, who is very tech-focused, Saturdays at theCoderSchool weren’t just about learning coding. He was working with someone who listened to him, built his confidence and formed a connection. It’s almost like there’s another layer happening in the coder-coach relationship that kids don’t necessarily get in traditional schools. Especially for tech-forward kids, whose brains may work at a different pace than the traditional education system, that relationship can be transformative. It’s such a joy — it’s not a pain. And I think that’s where some of the magic lies. Any thoughts or comments on that? Lynn:  The further into the future we go, the more I feel like these relationship aspects are falling by the wayside. Everyone’s glued to their phones, scrolling Instagram or trying to learn coding on YouTube. We’re missing that relationship component — the simple act of getting to know someone. In public schools, you might have 30 to 130 kids for one teacher. How much individual attention can they really give? What we offer is face-to-face interaction. A kid can high-five their tech buddy or mentor after solving a coding bug. There’s so much magic in that. In our training, we actually tell people that we’re teaching the future — coding and technology — but we’re doing it in a way that’s rooted in the past. It’s relationship-driven, like back in the 1950s when you’d walk into a grocery store, and the guy behind the counter would ask, “What kind of beans do you want?” Nowadays, you check out yourself.  We want to go back to that personal connection. We believe there’s a lot of power in bringing that relationship-focused approach to what we do. Powills: Is the same true for franchisees? If we take that last line, are you reclaiming the power of the relationship with the franchisee that maybe gets missed? Not saying School of Rock was bad, but are you changing the relationship with your franchisees? Lynn:  That’s an awesome question. We feel 100% like we are. We’re very custom with our franchisees, too. I like to say that I know almost all of our franchisees as friends — they’re people I’d grab a beer with. The way we run our schools isn’t as a company; it’s a family. Everyone has access to me and they’ll say, “Hey, you should do this, or you should do that.” Those are the people I listen to — they’re my board of directors. I really believe a flat organization is the only way to go. I’m not “the CEO.” I’m just like their brother. We chat, we hang out over drinks — it’s that kind of relationship. Powills: Do they resemble you? Are they formerly frustrated corporate executives? Is there a common thread in how they got into this? Lynn:  You know, I think it’s probably similar to a lot of franchises. There are definitely people who come from the corporate world and want to do something on their own. We also have a lot of spouses who say, “Hey, my husband or wife is bringing in the money, but I want to do something that fulfills me.” As for being tech-forward? Not really. There are some who are, but I’ll say this: being tech-forward has nothing to do with the success of this business. This is a relationship business. We can teach you enough tech to be dangerous, but you’ve got to get out there and connect with parents. You need to deliver a great product — not by knowing every detail about technology, but by making people feel good. It’s that whole Maya Angelou thing: “It’s not what you say or do, but how you make people feel.” Powills: All right, let’s get into the investment cost to get in. What’s in Item 19? Lynn:  To get in, it’s somewhere around the range of $80K to $160K. That’s one of those all-inclusive numbers. As for Item 19, revenue-wise, we’re somewhere around $300K as an average across the system. We actually include an EBITDA number in there, which is profit without a manager — so it’s apples to apples since some people hire a manager while others act as their own. That’s around $100K or so across the system. But people ask me this question all the time, and while I’ll give them a number, I always say to throw that number out the window. It’s an average and the range is huge. I’ll be the first to admit not everyone in our system is doing well, but some people are doing really well. So the question is, where will you fall on the range? Powills: That’s a great point. When I’m talking to franchisees and they ask, “What’s the average volume?” my response is, “Why?” They’ll say, “Because I want to know what I can make.” And I’ll respond, “Don’t you want to know what the highest is? Where’s your mindset? Are you aiming for below average?” I get it — it’s scary to get involved in something new, but when I keynote franchise conferences, my whole speech is about self-accountability. If you’re not performing at the level you expect, step one is to look in the mirror. Too often, we look at the franchisor and say, “What are you going to do for me?” Instead, it’s, “What are you going to do for yourself?” When you take control of your situation, you move forward. Of course, there will always be a bottom third in franchising. The real question is, can you coach them to want to be just a little bit better? Lynn:  Yeah, that “want to be” is huge, right? It’s about the self-willpower to get it done. I can only lead the horse to water — I can’t make it drink. Powills: As the saying goes. All right, let’s talk about the vision. We’ve already surpassed 30 locations. We’ve already “won.” But what’s the vision for the future of the business? Lynn:  The funny thing is, I actually don’t have a vision. I’m not here to try to blow it up. I’m not looking to exit, sell or anything like that. To be honest, the best part about this is that I brought in my best friend early on. He was my best friend before all of this, and now we’re running the company together. Our franchisees feel like another set of friends, and it’s just a blast. I tell people all the time — I don’t really care if we grow by two, 10 or 20 locations next year. What keeps me up at night is figuring out how to help our current franchisees. Can I build them another tool? Can I get them more leads? That’s what matters to me. My vision is simple: let’s grow organically. If more people come to us and they’re a good fit, great. If they’re not a good fit, then don’t join our system. Like you said, we already hit 30 — or whatever the milestone was — and we’re happy with where we are. I don’t see the need to blow it up. Powills: Well, I’ll put my son on the list. He’s 12, so he’s too young to be a franchisee just yet. But you’ll appreciate this with your music background — my kids’ names are Jagger and Lennon. Lynn:  Nice! Powills: Jagger loves tech. If I could pair him up with someone, maybe he’ll be a franchisee in eight years or so. Lynn:  Right on! There’s a lot of fun stuff to learn as a franchisee. You can really understand how the world works. Powills: Well, I’ll close by saying this: I respect your answer. Everyone seems to come up with some sort of visionary statement. Some say, “I want a million franchisees,” or “We’re going to hit X in sales.” But you said, “To be honest, I don’t have one. I’m working with my best friend, we’re building relationships with people who are becoming our close friends, and we’re making a difference.”  I don’t think I’ve ever gotten such an honest answer, and I appreciate that. What that shows is character. If someone is watching this and thinking about what they want in a leader, they’ll want someone who’s real more than anything. There are a million franchise brands out there, and many are all about the money.  The reality is that when brands say, “We’re looking for passionate people,” what they often mean is, “We’re looking for financially qualified people who are ready to buy.” Your answer is a refreshing contrast to that. I appreciate you sharing it, and I appreciate you doing the Franchisor Hot Seat. Thanks for being here. Lynn:  Well, thanks so much for having me on. This was a blast. Watch the full interview above or on  YouTube .  For more interviews with those influencing the franchise industry, check out these stories on 1851 Franchise: Dennis Cieri Shares How Fitness Factory Health Clubs Blends Strategic Growth with Franchisee-Centric Support The Ace Up Their Sleeve: How Ace Handyman Services Matters Found the Perfect Partner in Ace Hardware Tiam Behdarvandan’s Let’s Get Moving Offers a Franchise Opportunity Rooted in Growth and Support