In a recent episode of  Nick Powills ’  “Franchisor Hot Seat” podcast ,  Lucas Kovalcik , founder of  The Gravity Vault , shared his journey from opening his first climbing gym in 2005 to becoming the only franchisor in the climbing gym industry. Starting with a mission to make climbing accessible on the East Coast, Kovalcik has built a network of franchisees driven by a shared passion for the sport and a commitment to introducing climbing to their local communities. Kovalcik emphasizes The Gravity Vault’s focus on creating a supportive franchise system, from fine-tuning operations manuals to helping franchisees secure prime real estate and financing. With the sport’s rise in popularity — particularly after its inclusion in the Olympics — and the rapid expansion of climbing gyms nationwide, Kovalcik sees significant potential for future growth. A transcript of Powill’s interview with Kovalcik has been provided below. It has been edited for brevity, clarity and style. Nick Powills: Now Lucas, I know the story, but I want to hear it because I think it’s good and it frames things nicely. The first question is always scripted. Then we go off script. How did you accidentally fall into franchising? What’s your franchise story? Lucas Kovalcik:  I started the business in 2005, wanting to share the sport of rock climbing with individuals. I started climbing on the West Coast. Indoor climbing gyms had proliferated much more there than on the East Coast, where I’m from. I opened my first facility, then a second facility. At that time, there weren’t a lot of climbing gyms in the country — less than 200 total. We had people driving up to an hour, hour and a half, to climb with us. One member moved out of the area and then back into New Jersey, but further away. They came to me and said, “Hey, would you partner with me? Would you go into business with me to open a location near where I am?” At that point, we decided to pivot. We’d thought about franchising and talked about wanting to franchise in the future. I came from a hospitality background, so I was familiar with franchising from hotels and restaurants. It’s obviously a popular growth model in those industries. No one was franchising in the climbing world, so I decided to work with this individual very strategically. That was in 2014. We opened our first franchise location, and here we are 10 years later, still the only ones in the industry franchising, and we continue to grow. Powills: You mentioned there were only 200 climbing gyms when you started. How many are there now? Kovalcik:  Dedicated climbing gyms? Just short of 700. Powills: I would imagine that because of the cost of buildout, this isn’t for the low-cost investor. If there are heavy costs, there should be heavy returns. If you’re the only one franchising in this space, it’s because larger investment groups see the return. Adding 500 gyms since you started suggests there’s something there. Am I on the right track? Kovalcik:  Absolutely. It was previously seen as a niche sport. It was in the X Games and considered an extreme activity that only a small group of individuals participated in. People thought it was too dangerous for the mainstream. Over time, that perception has changed. It was included in the 2020 Olympics, for example, and is now recognized as a sport. When I opened the first facility in New Jersey, I had to register with the Department of Community Affairs, the governing body for amusements and recreation. At the time, the only climbing walls they knew about were at carnivals and fairs. Shortly after we opened, the Climbing Wall Association (CWA) was formed. We predate the governing body of the sport in the U.S.; the Climbing Wall Association started in 2006. I was one of the founding members and attended the first summit in Boulder, Colorado. That’s when the sport started gaining recognition. Now, you turn on any sitcom, and characters go on dates at climbing gyms. It’s in Subaru commercials. It’s become much more mainstream. Powills: Back to becoming a franchise — there’s a significant investment in infrastructure. When you were first approved as a franchise, what was your expectation for where you’d be today, and how does that compare to where you are now? Kovalcik:  I always wanted to take a slow and steady approach. I grew up with the philosophy of building a strong foundation to grow on. I opened my first location in 2005. It took four years to open the second location in 2009. People said, “Great, you did a good job, but maybe you just got lucky. Can you do it again?” We did it again in a different community. When we took on our first franchisee, we didn’t actively pursue more sales. We just wanted to get that one location up and running, making sure our operations manual, buildout costs and everything else matched our corporate facilities so we could help franchisees succeed. It worked. In 2016, we opened the next location. Then, in 2018, we opened two more. We took a slow and steady approach. Post-COVID, we’ve seen interest from private equity and mainstream business operators. The climbing gym industry is now seen as ripe for growth. It’s already been accepted into the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles. In 2020, during the Tokyo Olympics, there were three medals each for men and women. In 2024, that doubled, and in 2028, it will increase to nine medals each. That kind of growth is significant. The International Olympic Committee doesn’t allocate more medals unless there’s significant global interest and viewership. Looking back, I knew we were trailblazing. I thought someone else would be franchising by now, but there are unique challenges to being a franchisor. You’re not just running gyms; you’re selling them and helping others operate them. We’ve survived the 2008 credit crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic. In 2020, we had eight locations. We closed them all, reopened them, and none have gone dark since. Powills: How many locations do you have now? Kovalcik:  Including those in development, we have 18 total — 14 open locations and four in development. Powills: You must feel proud about pioneering this category. You’re creating Olympic athletes rather than just running a business. Do you ever stop to appreciate what you’ve built? Kovalcik:  I do. I enjoy what I do every day. I’ve reached a point in my career where I see friends who dread their work or have changed jobs multiple times. I’ve been fortunate to continue doing something I love. Next year, we’ll open three new locations in a three-month period — the most growth we’ve had in a short time. One is a third-time franchisee opening their third location, another is a second-time franchisee and the third is a first-time franchisee. I still pinch myself that I get to help people follow their dreams. Climbing gyms are an expensive endeavor, with large spaces, high rents and complex financing. I stay busy, but I try to appreciate the journey whenever I can. Powills: I love it. Let’s switch over to the brand. I use ClimbZone as an example. My perception is that it’s heavy on birthday parties and not much else, but it’s probably a good type of business for introducing children to this as a sport or fitness activity. How does the breakdown work with your customer base? What percentage are first-time climbers who are just discovering this and getting excited, and what percentage are the experienced ones who could become Olympic athletes? Kovalcik:  We have a really diverse set of programming. We start kids as young as five with entry-level programs, but we consider ourselves a membership-based gym for adults. We’re a place where climbers can come. The brand has really evolved, especially now that there are about 600 gyms. It’s like the days of traditional fitness. There’s a difference between what Planet Fitness offers and what Lifetime Fitness offers. We’re starting to see that same kind of diversification in the climbing industry. Some gyms are geared toward being training centers for aspiring Olympic athletes. Others, like ClimbZone, are just for kids. We span that gap, offering something for both. I’ve tried to take a hospitality approach. I mentioned earlier that I started in the hotel industry. When I first visited climbing gyms, I was often checked in by someone behind the desk who was a much stronger climber than me and maybe not the most personable or customer-focused. If you weren’t as strong as them, you might not feel welcome. I wanted to demystify the sport. When you come to our gyms, it’s a warm environment — whether you’re a first-time climber or an experienced one who climbs every day. It’s your community, your third place. About a third of our revenue comes from experienced climbers — members who visit regularly. Another third comes from individuals buying one-time day passes, taking classes and testing the waters before committing to a membership. The final third comes from group events. We host a wide range of these: kids’ birthday parties, adult parties, corporate team-building events, camp groups and more. We also do a lot of retail. We sell climbing shoes, harnesses and branded apparel. People love to wear gear from the brand they climb with. Powills: This might sound like a silly question, but is the sport attracting high-net-worth individuals at a different pace? Are the adventure-driven people — like Ironman participants — drawn to climbing gyms? Has that translated to who your franchise candidates are? Kovalcik:  When you say candidates, do you mean franchisees? It’s amazing. Our franchisees are very diverse, but the common thread is that they’re educated professionals in high-profile jobs across different industries. We have franchisees in finance and forensic accounting, engineers, consultants who’ve started their own businesses, and even people from the pharmaceutical industry. There’s also a passion element to the sport that transcends industries. Whether you’re in finance or another field, climbing becomes part of your identity. Think of the Lululemon effect — people want to be identified as climbers or yogis even when they’re grocery shopping. Our gyms attract college students, young professionals and even seniors. We have a group of 70- and 80-year-old men who climb every Sunday morning. Seeing people in their 80s using our facilities is inspiring and sets us apart. Powills: I love that. To me, climbing seems symbolic. A long time ago, I remember going to a Gravity Vault with you. I don’t think I even got an inch off the ground. I’m proud of what I can accomplish now, but back then, not so much. Climbing represents teamwork and culture, which are key elements of a great franchise brand. It seems like what happens in climbing translates perfectly to business. How does that resonate with you? Kovalcik:  Climbing is a community-based activity. It’s an individual sport, but you do it with friends. For example, people come from their workplace to climb together. They’re not physically tied to one another, but they’re encouraging each other, offering pointers and celebrating each other’s successes. If you reach the top of a climb that I can’t finish, I’m not angry — I’m psyched for you. I’m excited to try again, and I hope you’ll help me succeed. Climbing is often described as solving problems. You’ll hear people ask, “Did you solve that problem?” It ties into teamwork and community-building. We see teamwork in so many aspects of life, and climbing helps reinforce that. I’ve seen kids with learning disabilities and autism thrive in our gyms. There was a recent study about adults with Parkinson’s improving motor skills through climbing. One of our gyms has a Parkinson’s meetup group and another just had someone start using the facility for physical therapy. Climbing also fosters teamwork within families. Parents can come with their kids and belay them on challenging routes, and the kids can belay the parents in return. It’s one of the few sports where people at completely different fitness levels can participate together. You can’t do that with tennis or baseball, but you can with climbing. Powills: If I were you — unsolicited advice — I would play back what you just said because you’re talking about what happens from the customer standpoint. I’m listening to the words you’re saying, and I’m like, that’s totally your franchise positioning. Even with a franchisee, we’re going to go through a challenge. You surpass me, I’m going to cheer you on but then I’m going to figure out how to improve my business to get there. I feel like the words you just said inspire because they’re so impactful to what business is too. Business is very much like rock climbing in the way you described. I think you said it beautifully. Let’s jump over to the investment. Cost to get in, Item 19 — how do you answer that to a candidate? Kovalcik:  The cost to build, on average, is just north of $2 million. The majority of that comes from fixed-cost assets like climbing walls. You’re building facilities ranging from 12,000 to 18,000 square feet, depending on the footprint, with climbing walls, climbing holds and flooring products as significant components. Additional costs vary based on the type of space you’re taking over. We’ve been in industrial spaces, facilities with 24-foot ceilings, and even some where we’ve dug pits 10 to 15 feet deep to get the height we need. In other cases, we’ve raised roofs or scraped buildings entirely. But on average, the cost is a little over $2 million. Powills: Do you make an earnings claim in Item 19? Kovalcik:  We share performance data from our corporate facilities to show candidates what’s possible. We include top-line revenue for our franchisees in Item 19 but don’t forensically analyze their P&Ls. Instead, we provide the P&Ls for our four corporate facilities and encourage candidates to reach out to franchisees for more details on the numbers. Powills: I don’t know if this is a bold statement, but if you go back to when you started this business, my gut says you didn’t do it for the money. You had the passion first. Saying you’re going to open two of these things at $2 million a pop — it’s like, what? But you were so passionate about it. I imagine that passion buys time. Some people look at traditional businesses and ask, “What’s the cost to get in? How much can I make? How fast is the ROI?” They don’t consider the variables. Is that accurate? Did you get into this more for the passion than the money? Kovalcik:  Yes. I think today we’ve curated a group of franchisees who aren’t exclusively looking for financial returns. Of course, we want everyone to make a return on their investment, but we’ve also attracted individuals with a passion for the sport and a desire to grow it. For example, that first franchisee moved within New Jersey and wanted to open a gym in a new area. They’re still operating that gym today. Another individual tried to open their own gym for four years in their town but couldn’t get it done. They came to us, and within 12 months, we helped them secure financing and navigate landlord negotiations. It’s rewarding to see people open gyms in their own backyards, serving the communities they live in. We rarely get someone saying, “I’m in South Carolina, but I want to open a gym in Florida.” It’s usually someone who lives in the area and wants to build something nearby, often with a personal connection to climbing. Powills: Out of curiosity — when you talk about 200 gyms when you started and now 700 gyms, a little more than 3X growth — does that reflect how your gross sales have increased? Has the awareness of climbing impacted your corporate operations in a similar way? Kovalcik:  We started with one facility, and if you’re talking about 3X growth, we now have four corporate locations. Overall, we’ve grown from one location to about 18. We’ve actually seen above-average growth because we’ve fine-tuned our model. This has allowed us to accelerate single-unit operators opening gyms, as well as attract multi-unit operators. Powills: Let’s close with the vision. What happens next? What’s the vision for the brand? How do you want someone considering this business to see it? Kovalcik:  It’s a fun, family-friendly business and one I’ve personally enjoyed building. I chose to franchise to share the opportunity with others who might be missing some pieces of the puzzle — people who want to be entrepreneurs but need guidance. Looking back, it was a big leap for me, and it wasn’t purely about financial returns. Failing wasn’t an option, but I had to learn over time — what staffing plans work best, how to market, how to handle route setting. If someone is looking for a family-friendly, exciting and growing business, there are enormous opportunities here. Across the country, there are only six to 12 gyms per state on average, so the industry’s growth potential is enormous. Having been in business for 20 years as of January 2025, we’ve proven our model. I’m open to having conversations with anyone interested in this opportunity. Powills: I love it. Sometimes it takes a while for things to click, but you can see the momentum building — like the Olympics and the increased medals. There’s so much energy around what you’ve started, and you should be very proud. I’m grateful you shared your story with us today. Kovalcik:  Thanks for the conversation. Powills: Thanks, Lucas. Watch the full interview above or on  YouTube .  For more interviews with those influencing the franchise industry, check out these stories on 1851 Franchise: Tiam Behdarvandan’s Let’s Get Moving Offers a Franchise Opportunity Rooted in Growth and Support Jeff Brazier Drives Kiddie Academy’s Growth with Strategic Leadership and Franchisee Support Executive Q&A: Natalie Black, CEO of Comfort Keepers