How Ellie Mental Health Is Transforming Communities Through Franchise Expansion

Emmanuelle Hardy, vice president of franchise development at Ellie Mental Health, has a history of driving growth and making an impact. From her early days helping build the Curves for Women network in France to her current role with Ellie Mental Health, Hardy knows what it takes to grow a brand while staying focused on what really matters: making a difference.

In a recent episode of Nick Powills’ “Franchisor Hot Seat" podcast, Hardy opened up about her franchising journey and what sets Ellie Mental Health apart from other brands in the industry.  She highlighted the brand’s mission to meet the rising demand for accessible mental health services, with 235 clinics open across 42 states and hundreds more in development. Hardy  also shared insights into the qualities that make a successful franchisee, emphasizing the value of hands-on ownership, and offered a glimpse into her vision for Ellie’s future as a leader in ths critical and expanding field. 

A transcript of Powills’ interview with Hardy has been provided below. It has been edited for brevity, clarity and style.

Nick Powills: All right, Emmanuelle, we're going to start with your story, then we'll get into the brand. It's such a simple question, and everybody kind of chuckles about it, but how did you accidentally get into franchising?

Emmanuelle Hardy: Like you said, accidentally. I was starting my career in financial services, and I just wanted to be my own boss. I also wanted to move back to my home country, France.

After being in the U.S. for a few years, I came across a concept that might age me a little: Curves for Women — the initial boutique fitness model with 30-minute workouts for women. My sister and I took the concept back to France. We opened the first club together, and after six months, we thought we'd made the biggest mistake of our lives.

But six months later, we had doubled the size of an American club and were really proving the concept. So, as a team, we continued to develop it in France, which led to creating the largest fitness network in the country at the time, with 150 clubs. After that, it was time for my family and me to move back to the U.S., which we did in 2009. I joined a small, emerging network and here I am, 20 years later, with Ellie Mental Health.

Powills: I love it. All right, there are a few things I want to unpack from that. I had a podcast yesterday with a franchisee, and we started talking about the mental stability of a franchise owner, which connects to our conversation.

You mentioned those first six months as a franchise operator when you thought you'd made a large mistake. Is that because — this isn't about Curves, specifically — franchising sometimes fails to set proper expectations? When franchisees look at a fancy Item 19, that's a story for down the line. But if they think those results will happen on day one, there's a gap. How do we solve that gap and better educate franchisees on what to expect?

Hardy: Well, back then, I was very naive. I didn't know much about entrepreneurship, running a business or franchising. Over the years, I've seen many candidates in the same stage, and it’s a blessing and a curse.

People sometimes expect that because it's a franchise, they won’t have to work too hard. But I always remind them: if starting a business were easy, everyone would do it. Starting a business — whether it’s a franchise or an independent venture — requires hard work. Franchising gives you a much better chance to succeed, but it doesn’t eliminate the effort needed. You still have to put in the work.

Powills: Does capital solve some of those issues? Obviously, you're going back to France and, while you're not completely bootstrapping, you're still making bootstrapping decisions until you can build scale. Getting to 150 units is incredible. Is capital part of that gap?

Hardy: In our case, it wasn’t. We were well-funded, so it was just a matter of working hard. It was a brand-new concept, an emerging idea that no one had ever heard of.

As a matter of fact, the French thought it was called "Carver," mistaking us for some Tupperware or plastic company, which added to the challenge. But in many cases — and this is what I recommend today with Ellie — you do want to have the runway.

You never know what’s going to happen, so capital is a huge part of it. When you have it, it gives you peace of mind. For us, we had the capital, so we just went back to the books, back to the processes. We doubled down on marketing, and that’s all we had to do.

Powills: That’s crazy. Any success story I hear about where there’s a bit of turbulence always fascinates me. I’ve shared this story many times before, but I’ll say it again.

I was at a conference where the top three franchisees were on stage. The number three went from middle of the pack to number three. The moderator asked, “What did you do differently?” He said, “I spent 10% of every dollar on marketing.”

The franchisee next to me elbowed me and said, “That guy’s an idiot.” I thought, “He’s on stage. He’s number three. He just showed how successful he is.”

I think it’s sometimes the mental mindset of a business operator. Do you put cash out there knowing there’s no guaranteed return? If you hire someone, you at least have a person working. But if you put it into marketing, there’s no guarantee of a magical ROI.

That mindset can be so tricky. I imagine that the significance of those first six months for you was building a true business operator mindset. It’s good that you had to push through that because you might not have come out on the other side to build it to 150 units.

Hardy: It’s a learning process. If someone gets into franchising without any business ownership experience, there’s definitely going to be a learning curve.

Powills: All right, let’s get into the brand. The way you talk about Curves in France — and Curves in general — it’s clear that when it started, it was a different take on fitness for women.

Do you see similarities with Ellie? Are you carving out a new category? And are you able to tap into some of the insights you gained with Curves to apply to this brand category?

Hardy: Absolutely. I feel the same way with this brand — it’s a first in its category. No one else has franchised mental health clinics before Ellie. It’s been a learning process, but instead of going to different countries, we’re currently expanding to different states. Today, we’re open in 42 states.

If you know anything about the medical system in America, it’s incredibly complex, so there’s a lot to learn. Many of the challenges I faced taking a concept from one country to another are similar to the challenges of expanding from one state to another.

Powills: How many units do you currently have?

Hardy: Today, we have 235 clinics open in 42 states. And we’ve accomplished that in just 28 months.

Powills: That’s incredible. How many franchisees are represented in that group?

Hardy: We have about 210 franchisees in that group. Many of them commit to opening several clinics, but we don’t expect them to open all their clinics at once. On average, they open three clinics under a development agreement.

Recently, we’ve seen more franchisees opening additional clinics. This end of the year has seen a lot of growth, and we expect even more expansion in 2025.

Powills: I’m going to make a broad statement, but I think it connects. There was a point when we wanted to get our child tested for things like autism. At that time, it was going to take a year and a half to get an appointment.

I think about the growing awareness around mental health challenges that so many people face — issues that were often buried under the rug for years. Then I think about senior care as a category. Even with its significant growth, the demand remains so high that there’s still plenty of room for more caregivers and franchises.

Franchising has done an amazing job in senior care, building a service line that addresses this demand. But when I hear about 200-plus locations in mental health, it sounds impressive, yet it’s probably far from meeting the actual need. Would you agree with that?

Hardy: Absolutely. Yes, we still have a lot of room for growth. We currently have commitments for about 700 clinics to open, but there’s room for many more.

Powills: Who is the ideal candidate buying into this? What’s their persona?

Hardy: For the vast majority, our owners don’t have a mental health background. I think I can count on one hand the number of owners who do. Most of our franchisees come from corporate backgrounds or own other businesses.

What we see are individuals who are financially well-established, often after achieving success in their corporate careers or other ventures. They’re at a point where they want a business that’s more meaningful — something that gives back to their communities.

I hear a lot of personal stories about why they feel connected to the mental health space. Sadly, I think we can all relate today. There’s not a single person who doesn’t know someone — a family member, friend or acquaintance — who has struggled with mental health challenges.

Powills: Yeah, I think that’s the key point that will continue to drive growth in this category. It reminds me of senior care. If we go back to before 2008, senior care was nowhere near as developed as it is today. It was in its infancy.

Flash forward 17 years, and now it’s a massive industry. Most senior care business owners likely had personal experiences with aging parents — either as caregivers or witnessing the lack of attention they received. That connection drove them to find solutions.

Similarly, I believe anyone you ask today can connect the dots to mental health, which makes it easy to see the potential of this business opportunity. The awareness of mental health challenges is only going to continue to grow.

Hardy: I agree, absolutely. Especially with the younger generation — they have no stigma.

One of our goals is to destigmatize mental health. It’s crucial for the older generation, but the younger generation — as they grow into adulthood — are already much more comfortable talking about it.

Powills: That’s true. Let’s talk about the investment. How much does it cost, and what did you disclose in 2019? What’s the answer?

Hardy: The initial cost to open a first clinic ranges between $290,000 and $510,000. A significant portion of that is related to the office space. Typically, we need a space with 10 to 12 offices — about 3,000 to 4,000 square feet in office-type buildings.

Nothing extravagant, but we do need that space. We’ve noticed that many people are craving in-person sessions. While we offer both in-person and virtual options, there’s a strong preference for in-person interactions.

Powills: What do you include in Item 19?

Hardy: For Item 19, our first disclosure covered just the first year. Since we opened our first clinic in July 2022, 2023 was really our first full year of operations. This year, we’ve been able to start disclosing some franchisee numbers.

For the first year, the revenue ranged from less than $1,000 per month to well over $190,000 per month. There’s a noticeable gap between month one and month 12.

We also disclosed our corporate locations, which are all based in Minnesota. Our lowest-performing corporate locations, typically in more rural areas, ranged from about $30,000 per month to over $300,000 per month at the high end.

Powills: That’s impressive. What do you think accounts for the variance? Is it the operator, marketing, or community engagement? What drives performance differences?

Hardy: It’s difficult to draw firm conclusions yet because we’re still in the early stages. There’s a lot of disparity by state, and factors like insurance reimbursement rates can vary significantly.

That said, the most successful franchisees are the ones devoted to making their business work. I’ve seen some franchisees approach this as a semi-passive investment, and it doesn’t work as well. It’s not that it doesn’t work at all, but it takes much longer. No one will put in the effort that a fully engaged business owner will.

Powills: I have a couple of thoughts. First, I think your Item 19 from 2023 is incredibly impactful. If I were a franchise buyer, I’d keep looking at that disclosure because it sets clear expectations about ramp-up.

Regarding absentee ownership — yes, it’s possible. When you went from one unit to 150, you couldn’t be at every location every day. But there’s a roadmap to becoming absentee at a location.

If you build your business to be strong enough, you can eventually scale to the point where you’re absentee. Even at five units, it’s achievable. However, in my opinion, it’s a process that takes time — potentially a five-year run — to perfect the business and reach that level of scale. The right mentality is key to making that happen.

Hardy: Absolutely. You need to build it in order to be able to step away from it. If you don’t build it, there’s nothing to step away from.

Powills: Let’s touch on the vision. Many franchisors would hear numbers like 250 locations or 700 in development and think, “How is that even possible?” Selling and awarding franchises isn’t the challenge, but as we mentioned earlier, there’s still so much room for growth. What’s the vision for the brand over the next year or so?

Hardy: Our vision is to help our existing franchisees establish themselves, develop their area development agreements and bring on more franchisees. We still have a lot of open territory. We believe the network could eventually grow to over 1,000 locations across the country. There’s definitely room for growth, and we’re continuing to recruit.

Powills: I love it. Emmanuelle, I think your backstory is fantastic. What you witnessed and achieved, especially in a country that didn’t understand the brand at first, is incredibly valuable to what this business is going through now.

Your ability to push through those first six months — to figure out how to get into a good rotation — is deeply impactful for franchisees. I love the branding, but even more so, I love the brand category.

I can see the true impact this brand is going to have. As a pioneer — just like with Curves — you’ll likely see imitations come along. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing. The more resources we can provide to those in need, the better off we’ll be as a community.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Hardy: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Powills: Of course. For Emmanuelle, I’m Nick. This was another “Franchisor Hotseat.”

Watch the full interview above or on YouTube.

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